writers like you remind me that fashion is so much more than designers and status symbols with four digit price tags. it affects and informs every part of our lives, if only we’re curious enough to dig into it. thank you for taking the time and effort to write this!! <3
You’ve done such a great job researching and writing about this topic, thank you! Sending it to lots of people because it provokes such interesting reflection.
Part of that reflection (for me) is thinking about the idea of “dupes versus knockoffs” and how the cultural stance on “knockoffs” has changed from one of shame (remember the Samantha Fake Fendi Sex and the City episode?) to one of subversion and cleverness (“oh you stuck it to the rich French conglomerate! And saved money, you’re thrifty!”) We no longer universally consider it moral to buy the “real version” — the culture has a stronger anti-large-corporation stance. We recognize that even the large corp has sourced its ideas from somewhere (it exists in the context of everything that has come before…🙃) We are collectively aware, more than we ever have before, that even the famous design houses that are scared of IP theft often commit outright IP theft themselves from subcultures without the means to scale their visions. You can really see that cultural shift via a 2007 New Yorker article about a lawyer who “hunts down counterfeiters.” I consider it progress, however minimal it may be, that it felt jarring to see a New Yorker article talk about Chinese people that way. The article [1] only dared to pose this question as an aside: “[Some people] suggested that he was doing something bad, putting helpless immigrants and desperate Chinese laborers out of work for the sake of making a bunch of rich French people richer. Harley could tell himself that he was protecting the real against the fake, but then he thought back to when he was a kid, before brands got so important—when, as he remembered it, people used basic, generic goods, when a sneaker was just a sneaker. Compared to that basic thingness, brands themselves seemed fake.”
To some extent, it’s also worth noting that the Canal St sellers aren’t actually cannibalizing the big design house’s customers and that they need each other. They’re in a strange symbiosis. The Canal St sellers need the luxury houses for product marketing (making a certain style or brand popular with consumers.) The big luxury houses actually view the Canal St sellers as a means to measure their cultural caché. No wonder they’re opening stores on Canal St. It was kinda surprising for me to read this from the Diesel founder: “Rosso himself has never purchased anything on Canal Street, but he often visits to see which are the most copied. “If someone copies you it means that your brand is worthy and top of mind with consumers,” he said. “It’s a sort of real-life market research.””
But while I agree that the “real” goods are also flawed, I disagree that they’re morally equivalent on two fronts. The first is in regard to labor: yes, both might have terrible labor conditions, but a very “legible” and concentrated target in the form of a large luxury house is a much better foe for a government or even an activist consumer base that a more “illegible” and grassroots network in the Pacific Rim. I don’t think that all of these operations are sweet small businesses — maybe some are, but the factories and the production behind some of these sellers is immense. I think it is very likely that without making claims on the current state of labor practices, it’s easier to protest/regulate the Big Corp to fix the issues.
The second is in regard to climate: I think the big fashion houses are better targets for regulators here too. The recent EU regulation CSRD is certainly going to push much more rigorous standards on them in a way that isn’t possible for some of these other operations that are operating more “off the grid.” I get why this is the case, and more power to them, but from a climate perspective, the big fashion houses have to consider materials innovation or supply chain innovation to make this all work. They’ve also been leaning into “sustainability” as a luxury concept (this might actually be true, given that climate change will mainly impact the global south…) which is in equal parts laudable at the individual entity level and problematic societally. It’s probably accurate to say that you will be “carbon neutral” if not negative (in a genuine, science-backable sense) with many luxury purchases in a way you will not with the other goods that may be produced and sold as “dupes” or knockoffs.
Ultimately, I’d say the issue that complicates both of these things for me — something both Canal Sts share — is related to over-consumption and logo obsession. Hard to think about that too.
thank you for this AMAZING thorough addition to the convo Tara! the symbiosis is fascinating. such a rich topic that we could spend months digging into. love the added reading links you shared, i'm gonna check those out.
A great read, very thoughtful! I love discussion around counterfeit luxury goods (RIP repladies) especially ones that do look (close to) identical and how they force us to reflect on our relationship to these status symbols. I feel like when the luxury thing can be duplicated why do we continue to value the “real deal”? With a smaller brand you can of course hide behind “well, I want to support creatives” but when it’s LVMH? What’s the point of buying real other than to show that you can? Would love to read more into the psychology of it
100%!! I think consumer sentiment has really changed because so many of us feel economic anxiety...and yes while counterfeit isn't an "ethical" supply chain neither is "real" luxury! I saw Vestiaire post an IG video today that used hashtags like #fuckfakes and it's like oooof you know something's afoot when brands are trying so hard demonize something
This is academic!! I don't have any additional takes, but did want to share that on a related topic, me n nick were discussing a wave of (seemingly, only anecdotally observed) abandonment of big brands in China, especially with the reports of how much these Dior bags actually cost to make in China, when they can make better quality items by Chinese craftspeople for Chinese people and the emphasis on the arts/fashion scene in China and supporting domestic brands which would be interesting to delve into too! ALSO the "I don't respect english as a language" is soooo silly and is also something that the Korean rapper Soyeon from (G)I-DLE said in response to people criticizing her sometimes nonsensical english lyrics which I LOVE. Anyways, your writing is exemplary, as always, and I always learn so much and can feel my mind expanding with every post. <3
This is phenomenal! I highly recommend 'Vestoj Issue 8: On Authenticity' to anyone interested in continued reading. Most if the issue has to do with ideas of selfhood, but this article specifically explores China's counterfeit culture and its ripple effects on businesses, communities, and livelihoods. spoiler alert: everyone supports.
This was amazing Viv, I was looking forward to this piece after seeing the notes and snippets you posted on Instagram stories, and it didn't disappoint!
I think it's ironic how brands and the "legitimate" clothing industry today obsess over the theft of ideas by counterfeiters when cultural appropriation as well as wage theft (to the extent of enslaving people) have very much been inextricable from textiles and the fashion industry for centuries.
Thanks for writing this essay! This is such an interesting and important perspective from which to view the idea of real vs fake. I’ve been thinking about luxury goods a lot and how they are being so sought after and influential while, if we are being honest, (at least for me) they go against a lot of my values and ethics. Fashion reveals a lot about society and it’s one of the most interesting aspects of fashion imo.
I’ve purchased jewelry on TRR and Praise The Lord have had no issues with purchases or returns. It helps if you are Familiar with the brands you are buying.
Enjoyed your essay, especially since I grew up blocks from Canal Street.
In weird timing, I just read “Counterfeit,” by Kirstin Chen..it was a Reese’s pick couple of years ago. Very entertaining, and not deep as your writing, but good.
Thought of this essay when I was walking down Canal after work the other day and there was this whole chain of alarm going down through all the sellers on the street when cops were coming - they were all helping each other out to avoid the bullshit hassle and extreme danger that comes with that. V cool act of solidarity/mutual aid in action to witness 💯
Such a brilliant article! Made me reexamine my own relationship and perception of counterfeit products especially as someone who lives in Southeast Asia where these products are practically commonplace but the judgment still holds. Very thoughtful read that I'll be thinking about in the interim.
hello! I really loved this read! I live in Spain and there's a very similar situation here. African immigrants who sell fakes (mainly football jerseys and bags) are known as 'Lucky Lucky Men'. Not only are the sellers stereotyped but also the buyers, who are typically British working class families. Spanish people have disdain for both groups, whereas on the inside of that transaction, it's normally a positive experience, with light hearted haggling etc. Would love to hear other European's perspective on this!
Thank you so much for this story and all the work and thought that went into it. I learned so much reading it, after reading lots on this subject that never covered this point of view as you have. I am so grateful for you!
writers like you remind me that fashion is so much more than designers and status symbols with four digit price tags. it affects and informs every part of our lives, if only we’re curious enough to dig into it. thank you for taking the time and effort to write this!! <3
thanks for the kind words, aya!
You’ve done such a great job researching and writing about this topic, thank you! Sending it to lots of people because it provokes such interesting reflection.
Part of that reflection (for me) is thinking about the idea of “dupes versus knockoffs” and how the cultural stance on “knockoffs” has changed from one of shame (remember the Samantha Fake Fendi Sex and the City episode?) to one of subversion and cleverness (“oh you stuck it to the rich French conglomerate! And saved money, you’re thrifty!”) We no longer universally consider it moral to buy the “real version” — the culture has a stronger anti-large-corporation stance. We recognize that even the large corp has sourced its ideas from somewhere (it exists in the context of everything that has come before…🙃) We are collectively aware, more than we ever have before, that even the famous design houses that are scared of IP theft often commit outright IP theft themselves from subcultures without the means to scale their visions. You can really see that cultural shift via a 2007 New Yorker article about a lawyer who “hunts down counterfeiters.” I consider it progress, however minimal it may be, that it felt jarring to see a New Yorker article talk about Chinese people that way. The article [1] only dared to pose this question as an aside: “[Some people] suggested that he was doing something bad, putting helpless immigrants and desperate Chinese laborers out of work for the sake of making a bunch of rich French people richer. Harley could tell himself that he was protecting the real against the fake, but then he thought back to when he was a kid, before brands got so important—when, as he remembered it, people used basic, generic goods, when a sneaker was just a sneaker. Compared to that basic thingness, brands themselves seemed fake.”
To some extent, it’s also worth noting that the Canal St sellers aren’t actually cannibalizing the big design house’s customers and that they need each other. They’re in a strange symbiosis. The Canal St sellers need the luxury houses for product marketing (making a certain style or brand popular with consumers.) The big luxury houses actually view the Canal St sellers as a means to measure their cultural caché. No wonder they’re opening stores on Canal St. It was kinda surprising for me to read this from the Diesel founder: “Rosso himself has never purchased anything on Canal Street, but he often visits to see which are the most copied. “If someone copies you it means that your brand is worthy and top of mind with consumers,” he said. “It’s a sort of real-life market research.””
But while I agree that the “real” goods are also flawed, I disagree that they’re morally equivalent on two fronts. The first is in regard to labor: yes, both might have terrible labor conditions, but a very “legible” and concentrated target in the form of a large luxury house is a much better foe for a government or even an activist consumer base that a more “illegible” and grassroots network in the Pacific Rim. I don’t think that all of these operations are sweet small businesses — maybe some are, but the factories and the production behind some of these sellers is immense. I think it is very likely that without making claims on the current state of labor practices, it’s easier to protest/regulate the Big Corp to fix the issues.
The second is in regard to climate: I think the big fashion houses are better targets for regulators here too. The recent EU regulation CSRD is certainly going to push much more rigorous standards on them in a way that isn’t possible for some of these other operations that are operating more “off the grid.” I get why this is the case, and more power to them, but from a climate perspective, the big fashion houses have to consider materials innovation or supply chain innovation to make this all work. They’ve also been leaning into “sustainability” as a luxury concept (this might actually be true, given that climate change will mainly impact the global south…) which is in equal parts laudable at the individual entity level and problematic societally. It’s probably accurate to say that you will be “carbon neutral” if not negative (in a genuine, science-backable sense) with many luxury purchases in a way you will not with the other goods that may be produced and sold as “dupes” or knockoffs.
Ultimately, I’d say the issue that complicates both of these things for me — something both Canal Sts share — is related to over-consumption and logo obsession. Hard to think about that too.
Thanks again — really thought provoking!
1. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/03/19/bag-man
thank you for this AMAZING thorough addition to the convo Tara! the symbiosis is fascinating. such a rich topic that we could spend months digging into. love the added reading links you shared, i'm gonna check those out.
A great read, very thoughtful! I love discussion around counterfeit luxury goods (RIP repladies) especially ones that do look (close to) identical and how they force us to reflect on our relationship to these status symbols. I feel like when the luxury thing can be duplicated why do we continue to value the “real deal”? With a smaller brand you can of course hide behind “well, I want to support creatives” but when it’s LVMH? What’s the point of buying real other than to show that you can? Would love to read more into the psychology of it
100%!! I think consumer sentiment has really changed because so many of us feel economic anxiety...and yes while counterfeit isn't an "ethical" supply chain neither is "real" luxury! I saw Vestiaire post an IG video today that used hashtags like #fuckfakes and it's like oooof you know something's afoot when brands are trying so hard demonize something
It’s almost like vestiaire needs fakes to be very visible and demonized in order for their business model to work 🫢
This is academic!! I don't have any additional takes, but did want to share that on a related topic, me n nick were discussing a wave of (seemingly, only anecdotally observed) abandonment of big brands in China, especially with the reports of how much these Dior bags actually cost to make in China, when they can make better quality items by Chinese craftspeople for Chinese people and the emphasis on the arts/fashion scene in China and supporting domestic brands which would be interesting to delve into too! ALSO the "I don't respect english as a language" is soooo silly and is also something that the Korean rapper Soyeon from (G)I-DLE said in response to people criticizing her sometimes nonsensical english lyrics which I LOVE. Anyways, your writing is exemplary, as always, and I always learn so much and can feel my mind expanding with every post. <3
Based on this post alone, I’m upping my sub to paid.
that means a lot Cynthia! thank you so much for your support 💕
This is phenomenal! I highly recommend 'Vestoj Issue 8: On Authenticity' to anyone interested in continued reading. Most if the issue has to do with ideas of selfhood, but this article specifically explores China's counterfeit culture and its ripple effects on businesses, communities, and livelihoods. spoiler alert: everyone supports.
https://vestoj.com/a-copy-of-a-copy/
thank you for this becca! started reading it over lunch hehe
This was amazing Viv, I was looking forward to this piece after seeing the notes and snippets you posted on Instagram stories, and it didn't disappoint!
I think it's ironic how brands and the "legitimate" clothing industry today obsess over the theft of ideas by counterfeiters when cultural appropriation as well as wage theft (to the extent of enslaving people) have very much been inextricable from textiles and the fashion industry for centuries.
Immediately thought of this article from NYT last year when reading your essay. V. interesting read! https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/04/magazine/celine-chanel-gucci-superfake-handbags.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb
bookmarked to read later, thanks for sharing!
Thanks for writing this essay! This is such an interesting and important perspective from which to view the idea of real vs fake. I’ve been thinking about luxury goods a lot and how they are being so sought after and influential while, if we are being honest, (at least for me) they go against a lot of my values and ethics. Fashion reveals a lot about society and it’s one of the most interesting aspects of fashion imo.
100%. thanks for taking the time to read nina!
I’ve purchased jewelry on TRR and Praise The Lord have had no issues with purchases or returns. It helps if you are Familiar with the brands you are buying.
Enjoyed your essay, especially since I grew up blocks from Canal Street.
In weird timing, I just read “Counterfeit,” by Kirstin Chen..it was a Reese’s pick couple of years ago. Very entertaining, and not deep as your writing, but good.
I’ll have to read it! Counterfeit is a heated conversation right now.
Thought of this essay when I was walking down Canal after work the other day and there was this whole chain of alarm going down through all the sellers on the street when cops were coming - they were all helping each other out to avoid the bullshit hassle and extreme danger that comes with that. V cool act of solidarity/mutual aid in action to witness 💯
Such a brilliant article! Made me reexamine my own relationship and perception of counterfeit products especially as someone who lives in Southeast Asia where these products are practically commonplace but the judgment still holds. Very thoughtful read that I'll be thinking about in the interim.
Amazing work, thank you.
hello! I really loved this read! I live in Spain and there's a very similar situation here. African immigrants who sell fakes (mainly football jerseys and bags) are known as 'Lucky Lucky Men'. Not only are the sellers stereotyped but also the buyers, who are typically British working class families. Spanish people have disdain for both groups, whereas on the inside of that transaction, it's normally a positive experience, with light hearted haggling etc. Would love to hear other European's perspective on this!
Thank you so much for this story and all the work and thought that went into it. I learned so much reading it, after reading lots on this subject that never covered this point of view as you have. I am so grateful for you!